*facepalm* I don't think you really want to make things better for anyone. Your arguments are meant to make people worry or be suspicious. I'm not saying due diligence is uncalled for, but you are the guy that reads/hears/thinks something, blurts it out, and hopes it gains some traction. http://mturkforum.com/search.php?searchid=139569&pp= It's incredibly shallow.
Whimsy, it's a discussion where everybody is free to put forward their own point of view but you on the other hand seem to be always disagreeing with me. Kindly do not read my post, the moment you see the name- shariqueahmer on it.
[/QUOTE] Well, you're entitled to believe whatever you want, but I think the working conditions are well into the category of violating basic human rights. Labor has never, ever in all of human history post industrial-revolution been able to secure basic worker rights without raising awareness and coordinating. Telling people not to complain to try to unionize, etc is endorsing obedient semi-slavery.
There is this funny message from turkernation: If you are here to screw requester, then you will be banned immediately from our site. This is the only forum which has the censorship of free speech and I'm sure it's been run by some of the requesters or mturk itself. Hehe. Which other forum will post a statement like that.
I don't see any possible way reading an agreement, agreeing to the rules, willingly giving your bank information and tax info and then choosing which HITS you do and getting paid for them, in any way violates basic human rights or labor laws or endorses slavery of any kind.
Do you think it would be ethical for large corporations to pay desperate homeless people $1 an hour to mow grass? Do you think minimum wage laws have nothing to do with human rights and are pointless/bad?
http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/ It is ONLY through labor coordination and political action that rights such as these can manifest into tangible, legal rights. And you can only get political action with population awareness and coordination. It takes thought and work for labor to make even the smallest gains.
I don't view Mturk as a legitimate way to make a living. I view it as I would a babysitting job or a freelance writing job. Neither of those are going to get you minimum wage either.
I'm going to stop replying now Athena because this conversation is going to dissolve into politics and I can clearly see where you are coming from and you and I are worlds apart. Instead of Andy having to stop it-I'll just gracefully bow out and as you said- we all have opinions.
There are plenty of requesters using Mturk workers to do things they could hire regular employees to do.Crowdflower and crowdsource are 2 examples. They're basically using mturk as a temp service for companies like ebay and google. I'm almost ok with that morally as long as they try to pay something on par with a living wage (Crowdsource), but what CF is doing shouldn't be legal. It's morally repugnant and legally dubious, and DEFINITELY contrary to the UN declaration.
Also, the "I don't consider it a legitimate way to make a living" (and thus frown upon efforts to create/support workers' rights)could be applied to factory workers, working at Walmart, restaurants, all temp services, all childcare services, retail work, etc etc etc.
This crowd sourcing type of work is definitely a new concept. The internet has made great strides and opportunities for innovation like this. Unfortunately this type of work will also have the same issues that the world is experiencing with other internet based companies. Right now there are no legal precedents for simple things regarding the internet. Intellectual property, copyright infringement, all kinds of laws that are broken across country lines are standing in legal loop holes. If a company in France infringes on a company in Germany but their servers are housed in Spain, which country's judicial body should be responsible for trying the case? It's really nuts when you think about it. My point is, while the internet has been around for 30+ years, the legal precedents for trying cases related to world-wide internet sites are simply in their infancy. I agree that the work done here should be considered against the standards for human rights and minimum wages, but I fear that it will be many years before anything legal can be set in stone.
It also requires the people that are getting screwed to realize/feel like they're being screwed. If I'm reading this correctly (and please, feel free to stop me if I'm wrong) you are standing up for the rights of Indians on mTurk, yes? The problem is they are too busy celebrating their $2/hr. requesters to realize they're being screwed over. They ARE worth more. And so are we -- the difference is that I refuse to work for someone that doesn't pay me what my time is worth. Overseas workers are perfectly happy doing so because it's a step up for them. Basically dear, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. I drill it into this forum regularly that EVERYONE needs to stop working for pennies.
Yeah, I'm with you. This is some weird very new stage of global capitalism, and the people of the world really need to get on the same page ASAP. Because more and more work and jobs WILL be moving online inevitably. I don't see any way around that. And it's a race to the bottom for everybody everywhere if the workers don't wake up and see the supreme need of organization.